Showing posts with label Dave Weagle. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Dave Weagle. Show all posts

Saturday, October 4, 2008

single chainrings and the detrimental effects on bicycle suspensions used for climbing and all mountain type riding

Let me start off by saying that it is NICE to be back from Interbike, and to be spending time on developing some new products again. I had to take a week off from the blog just due to exhaustion and a huge workload, but I'm back at it and I will be getting to some reader questions that have come in over the last couple weeks. Keep the questions coming!!

Through e-mail and at the Interbike tradeshow, I've gotten a few people asking if it is possible to optimize a cross country or all mountain type suspension for use with a single sprocket.

The question usually goes something like this; "if you replaced your triple ring up front with a single sprocket, would that be better or worse for overall suspension performance"?

A couple of months ago I answered a few questions on suspension for Alan Muldoon, of MBR. MBR is a UK mountain biking magazine, one of the best for those of you who have not seen it, and Muldoon is one of the most technically savvy editors that I have ever met. The man is on it. The questions that I answered were published in part in the Summer issue, and also online.

One of the questions covered the question of single sprockets on all mountain bikes almost exactly. Here is what I wrote:

Question: With massive variations in chain angle in relation to the pivot, how can any manufacturer claim to have optimum anything?

DW: This is an awesome question! There are so many variables that come into play here, I love it. I think that I could write a hundred pages on this subject, but I’ll do my best to keep this short.

Bicycles have evolved in an interesting way over time. Over the first hundred or so years, the measurements of wheel diameters, bottom bracket heights, top tube lengths, etc. had just been empirically “figured out” by tinkerers. The geometry that we ride today in the grand scheme of things is not all that far removed from what people were on long ago. Sure, small changes make big differences in feel, but we are talking about really small changes at this point. (No adult is riding 10 inch rear wheels on their mountain bike.) Of course, this empirical geometry development was really just a systematic chain of choices based on what worked for human ergonomics. What felt right lived on, the Darwinian selection of cycling geometry if you will.

As bikes got more complex, gears were added, derailleurs, shifters, this original ergonomic heritage lived on. Drivetrain companies figured out through testing that a 22T front sprocket worked out well for climbing with an 11-32T and later 11-34T cassette. A 32T front sprocket felt good on flat ground with that same cassette range. A 44T front sprocket gave enough push for descending and getting up to speeds that would scare even the hairiest of men.

Then suspension came, and a whole new era of Darwinian selection began for cycling. Some designs were far ahead of their time, some were downright comical. A set of physical elements never before encountered were at work against cycle suspensions. Suspensions bobbed when riders pedalled hard, climbed hills, and did all kinds of other crazy things. Forces like gravity and anti-squat were acting on the suspension systems, yet few if any people in the world understood the how’s and why’s of why suspensions reacted the way they did.

One thing remained the same through this entire time. Drivetrains still used 3 sprockets, 22, 32, 44. It’s my opinion that the cycling public got extremely lucky here, as the variable front chainline is the savior of cycling suspensions.

I will go out on a limb here and say that without the variable front chainline of the front derailleur 22, 32, 44 (or 48 whatever), the suspension bicycle would have died in its infancy. Sounds crazy, I know, but hear me out.

This is going to take just a little bit of physics, but its not going to be hard to follow I swear. Earlier, I mentioned gravity and anti-squat. You can’t have anti-squat without gravity. I’ll explain both briefly here.

Everyone reading this knows the feel of gravity. It’s acting on everyone on the planet Earth right now. Gravitational force is pulling you directly downward at the earth, right toward the core of the planet. When you ride your bike on flat ground, gravity is pulling you toward the earth at a 90 degree angle to the ground. When you ride your bike uphill, say a 10 degree incline, gravity is pulling you toward the earth at a 100 degree angle to the ground. Gravity is still pulling straight through the center of the earth, but the angle of the ground has changed in relation to gravitational force. When you ride your bike downhill, say on a 10 degree decline, gravity is pulling you toward the earth at an 80 degree angle to the ground.

You might be asking yourself, "What exactly is “anti-squat”? Anti squat is a force that balances the effects of mass transfer on the suspension, giving the best possible bump compliance, while at the same time providing excellent energy efficiency. There are two forces that combine to create anti-squat; chain pull and driving force. Chain pull force is multiplied through your rear cogs and wheel as a lever creating driving force. Because of this leverage, driving force is always the greater than chain pull force, but both are significant. If you hear someone talking about “chain pull force” without mentioning “driving force” in the next sentence, there is a good chance that they have a bridge to sell you somewhere.

OK, now for the tie in! The amount of anti-squat that a suspension can develop is based on (among other things) the angle of the ground that the bike is riding on and the angle of the chainline. It just so happens that as a bike is climbing a hill, the amount of anti-squat drops because the direction of gravity in relation to the bike changes. What this means is that if you are pedalling along in your 32-18 on flat ground and have just the right amount of anti-squat, then start to climb a steep hill, say 15 degrees or so, the amount of anti-squat is going to lessen. It just so happens that moving the chainline downward, say like if you selected your 22T cog, increases anti-squat. In an Apollo 13 like turn of events, people actually use their 22T cog when they climb hills as steep as 15 degrees (you basically have to). The two changing anti-squat amounts balance out, leaving the rider with very similar riding characteristics while climbing in the granny and riding on the flat in the middle ring. Amazing, huh? As you may have guessed, the same goes for descending with a larger ring.

Because of this, chainline variability made some very poorly designed suspension bikes that would have otherwise been unrideable at least reasonably useful enough that people eventually tinkered away and arrived at bikes that performed well enough for suspension to become a reality for the masses.

Variable front chainlines are ALWAYS going to be a good thing for mountain bikers who ride their bikes on variable terrains. Without them, suspension bikes might still be considered a bad idea, and I would most likely be riding motocross.

I design for optimization in the middle ring in the flats and light climbs, granny for the big climbs, and big ring for the descents. There is a lot of overlap there.

Thursday, September 11, 2008

Suspension Terminology 1: What is Wheel Rate etc..?

Quote:
Question from Interested Rider
Thanks, this is still far from clear:

Quote:
Originally Posted by _dw
Designing specifically for wheel rate basically allows for a wider range of tunability with the stock shock settings, and it has the additional benefit that damping does not need to be specifically adjusted to make up for uncontrollable issues that arise when leverage rate is not matched with the air spring curve. All in all the method provides more shock tuning options with less tinkering.

Quote:
Originally Posted by _dw
Through experience, I've learned how to very precisely tune wheel rates, and for air shocked bikes, this is really important. Each bike's leverage rate is specifically engineered to work with a specific air shock and even air can volume to hit a desired wheel rate or wheel rate options. From there we develop damper tunes to meet the frame requirements.

:confused:

Some terminology will probably help..

Wheel rate:

Wheel rate is defined as the change of wheel load at the center of tire contact patch per unit vertical displacement of the sprung mass relative to the wheel, at a specified load. - Maurice Olley, Chassis Design Principles and Analysis; ISBN 0-7680-0826-3

(this does not factor in tire and wheel deflection, there is a different term and calculation for that)

So in layman's terms, wheel rate is the force change at the tire to ground contact patch as the suspension cycles through its travel. It can be graphed as force at the tire versus displacement of the suspension. Wheel rate is the force increase that you feel in your feet and your seat as you sit on your bike and compress the suspension.

I like to use the term "feel" to describe the human perception of wheel rate when riding a suspension bike or motorcycle. Heck, why not define it.. just to be clear.

Suspension "Feel": The human perception of wheel rate and other suspension characteristics through a vehicle's interfaces. On a bicycle these interfaces include the seat, pedals, and hand grips.

Air Spring Curve:

An "air spring curve" is the graphical representation of spring rate for an air spring. Spring rate is understood by most people who have taken a high school level physics class. It can be measured as spring force output versus spring displacement. (I use displacement as the term for length change because it is shorter and non-denominational). Where metal coil springs typically feature a constant rate, an air spring typically has a non-constant rate. This non-constant rate provides challenges for a suspension designer, particularly one like me who is trying to engineer a specific wheel rate, or "feel" into suspensions.

Leverage Rate:

This is one of those terms that rolls easily off the tongues of many bike people, yet few actually understand the nuances of how it can- and why it should be manipulated to benefit a suspension bike.

Leverage rate (or more accurately Instantaneous Leverage Rate) is the measured ratio of wheel displacement versus spring displacement at any instantaneous point in a suspension's travel.

This is not to be confused with Average Leverage Rate, which is just a straight division of total wheel displacement versus total spring displacement.

In order to achieve a specific wheel rate (remember, this is the suspension "feel" that I defined earlier), I need to make sure that my leverage rate is designed to specifically account for the shape of the air spring curve. This is just one of several parameters that must be considered. Additionally I spend a great deal of time looking at damper force outputs and anti-squat / braking squat. Those are discussions for another day.

As interested readers of this blog delve into this subject deeper on your own, you will notice the amazing variety of leverage and corresponding wheel rates used in cycling today. From there perhaps you will ask, "why is one more useful than another"?

I'm on my way to California for some spring damper testing, so I've got to cut this short. Thanks for reading and I hope this is somewhat educational!